Thursday, November 1, 2007

Press Conference News and Notes




Looks like we made the front page of the Pravda RU web site: http://english.pravda.ru/science/mysteries/31-10-2007/99895-moon-0

More to come as I get it...

Mike
Update: Added some images from Russian television taken at the presser...

38 comments:

Roman said...

Hi,
can you please tell where to see the photos mr.Johnston's promised to show? There's a lot of talks about Johnston in Russian-language media, though I can't see no photo except portraits :(

JimO said...

The first caption identifies Ken as "former director of photo archives of NASA".

Now, Mike, we all know that this isn't true.

So how, do you suppose, the Russian newsmen could have made that mistake?

Who helped them?

And now that you know the falseness of that coverage, are you still so proud of it?

Jim O
Russian-reading former military intelligence Captain (not)

Michythekid said...

Mike,
Some dweeb named Paul Kimball was talking smack about this. I'm sure you heard of him but I haven't and didn't like what I saw. I'm a Hoagland fan so I wanted to send a link of Kimball's tripe.
http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/

amiec said...

where & when is the dark mission conference in LA this weekend? (Nov2007)

robert said...

I got this email from Richard sent this morning and sorry about delay

But only come on-line about 7-8 PM EST..anyhoo
RCH:

Robert,

Still on the road in DC. Many significant developments "behind the

scenes" after the press club event. Will make a full report soon, as

sson as we return home -- tomorrow.

One day there .. then we head for LA, and the "big weekend." Will be

doing more important political stuff there.

Will be back for more time to report on ALL developments next week.

Until then ... stay tuned. :)

Pass it on ....


RCH
-----

amd Keith Laney gets thanx for these links:

http://newsfromrussia.com/science/mysteries/31-10-2007/99895-moon-0

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/10/08/01870.html

for AFTER event coverage he found.

and these links for BEFORE event coverage:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?

ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-22-2007/0004687165&EDATE=

http://tinyurl.com/36p3r9


http://preview.tinyurl.com/36p3r9

http://www.sys-con.com/read/450055.htm

Thanx Kieth :D

Bob...:D

Gort said...

Looks like the Russian TV people mispelled Ken Johnston's name as well. :)
They left out the "T"
Gort

Conspiracy007 said...

Is the picture in the middle an artist rendition? Have you guys seen the real picture if that is an artist rendition?
Thanks .... already ordered the book, can't wait for it. Hope you guys make it to no1 on NY bestseller list.

IonTruO2 said...

Thanks Mike! Appreciate your efforts.

It never ceases to amaze me that even people who are granted 'cosmic level' real knowledge and involvement in space matters of such grand proportions as to affect the whole of humanity, are not drawn to a higher conduct and right clarity of purpose.

more and more we are seeing examples of some seriously dysfunctional people and dramas trickling out of groups like NASA etc.

I frankly expected better of our science communities at these levels but it would seem it is just the same ol mediocre ego's at play as we see everywhere else.

Yes I am talking about the dirty laundry that is appearing in the story of Ken and JimO.


and to think I hear so much perpetual condescension towards the 'civilians' from military and agency folks.

IonTruO2 said...

I would follow my previous comment with the thought that "there either is Disclosure or there isn't".
The project must move forward.

Why the dithering and infighting, now being shown to common public is beyond me.
Sensationalism or friction might draw an audience, but not necessarily the right disposition of it to rightly receive this kind of profound information.

Obviously other disclosers are at work now and the momentum is growing as it follows the timeline that appears to have been well determined at higher levels.

Mike Bara said...

Ken was the manager of the "Data and PhotoControl" department at the LRL.

This is a fact you are well aware of Jim. You are also aware that I'm travelling right now, so why do you keep posting questions to me on this blog when you know I don't have time to respond substantively?

juergenk said...

Hi Mike

Can you please tell us if there will be a video of the press conference online somwhere (googlevideo or so) sooner or later?

robert said...

Mr. Oberg,

Perhaps you missed this question at the end of the previous blog entry.

To give YOU the benifit of doubt I will simply re-post the questions in THIS blog.

And I am NOT traveling...while Mike and Richard are...it is a fairly quick and simple thing to either approve or not the submissions to the blog.

So I, and others, would like my questions answered truthfully Mr. Oberg.

For the sake of BRUTAL TRUTH Mr. Oberg, did you or did you NOT contact anyone in NASA itself, or in the NASA Ambassador Program in ANY manner at ANY time and discussed Ken Johnston's participation in that program.

This is a simple YES/NO question.

If the answer is yes...then Ken Johnston at least deserves to see what ever you wrote and to whom, and/or who ever you comminicated with in any manner and the content of that comminication.

Ken Johnston DESERVES that content if you engaged in ANY contact concerning home. It's called the right to confront one's accuser...or would you deny Mr. Johnston that basic CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT?

AND the answer you give here will ALSO be used FOR THE RECORD.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Don't make promises and policies you don't intend to keep and to keep the policies and promises you do make.

ACTIONS speak louder than words.
ACTIONS are PROOF of intent.
ACTIONS are the final judgment of character.

It REALLY is that simple.

Bob...
http://commonsensecentral.net/

JimO said...

Bara: "Ken was the manager of the "Data and PhotoControl" department at the LRL. This is a fact you are well aware of Jim. "

I remain baffled why you insist I am 'well aware' of something I have no reason to know. You claimed I was a colleague of Johnston's during the Apollo program -- how often do I have to tell you, I was never even AT the NASA space center in Houston during the Apollo flights? Are you claiming that I realy -WAS- but that somebody used that 'little flashy thing' you seem to believe NASA invented (for the astronauts), to erase my own memories of being there?

Seriously, regarding Ken being this "department chief" at the laboratory in building 31 (a job that had nothing to do with the real photographic processing, interpreting, and archiving over in building 8), how big was this department supposed to be? 20 people? 5 people? Ken and a half-time secretary? What are you claiming?

Can't you at least admit that when the Russian press says Ken was chief of the NASA photo archives, they are incorrect, and they are incorrect because your own descriptions misled them?

T'Zairis said...

Got my copies of the book from Amazon on Friday, and have spent the last two days reading it cover to cover. All I can say is, EXCELLENT job!!!

My heart also goes out to the Apollo astronauts, some of whom must have endured hypnotic/psi programming rather than simple debriefing upon returning to Earth-- my brother-in-law's dad was a humble machinist for an aerospace company for many years, and upon retirement, was obliged to drive all the way up to L.A. from San Diego for a supposed 'retirement discussion/debrief', from which he returned (as family members put it) 'rather confused and addled, and fairly agitated'. His unusual behavior persisted for about a month. Heaven only knows what was said/done to him; all he did was work hard at his job and take good care of his wife and kids. When I read about some of the astronauts' distress about seemingly not remembering what they had done during thier missions, I was forcibly reminded of this (now deceased) member of my extended family.

Personally, I am inclined to think that the 'Brookings excuse' is just that: an excuse. If we were to find out for certain that we did indeed come from the stars, we would certainly want to go back there, as it is far preferable to sitting around here, enslaved to our own ignorance, petroleum cartels and various short-sighted religious interests.

Keep up the good work, and the pressure! My second copy of the book will be donated to my local public library system come Monday...

T'Zairis

Mike Bara said...

"Can't you at least admit that when the Russian press says Ken was chief of the NASA photo archives, they are incorrect, and they are incorrect because your own descriptions misled them?"

Well no Jim, I can't, because it's bullshit.

"I remain baffled why you insist I am 'well aware' of something I have no reason to know. You claimed I was a colleague of Johnston's during the Apollo program -- how often do I have to tell you, I was never even AT the NASA space center in Houston during the Apollo flights? Are you claiming that I realy -WAS- but that somebody used that 'little flashy thing' you seem to believe NASA invented (for the astronauts), to erase my own memories of being there?"

Once again, simple question: Did you know or work with Ken Johnston at ANY TIME that you were at NASA?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Mike

JimO said...

Bara: "Once again, simple question: Did you know or work with Ken Johnston at ANY TIME that you were at NASA? A simple yes or no will suffice."

Nice try -- to switch the subject of suspicion from you (who have made unsubstantiated allegations) to me (the subject of those unsubstantiated allegations), so you can "appeal to sympathy" and use the 'guilty until proven innocent' supposition. I don't remember meeting Ken, but I was often in bldg 31 for Thornton Page's "Astronomy Brown Bag" seminars every Wednesday noon hour gatherings, which touched on a very wide range of space-related topics. What does Ken remember?

Also, you demonstrate a useful tactic to try to keep attention off of Ken's level of real responsibility over what specific set of photographs -- discerning readers will note the dodges you are making in this regard, and will make their own conclusions on what this implies you know, but don't want them to know. You are the one trying to make a case, so you need to present the evidence -- not make a lot of noise (and gutter language) to try to somehow put ME on trial.

robert said...

Mr. Oberg,

Thankyou for your time for replying.

I am going to re-past your post below....MY comments will be precedded with rhw: and will also be enclosed with --- above and below your comments....excep my LAST comment about the specifics of your rely and my NEW material will be preceded by =====

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Oberg
To: rhw007@twcny.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: response on bara's board


i posted this but Mike is busy, as he says, and it might
take a few days for him to approve it. Here's a head's up.

Jim O

www.jamesoberg.com


Robert, you have much more serious issues with Mike Bara then with me. His misrepresentation of my own views and actions seems to have had a serious impact on the stability of some of the more excitable correspondents on this thread, which is one reason I've kept insisting he tell the truth rather than spin yarns.

For example, he tells the story that Ken was 'fired' from NASA, when even Ken only complains that he was 'pressured into resigning' from a non-paying volunteer position, a major difference -- and if you were to ask the JPL person who telephoned him, you might find a different account there, as well.

---------------------------------------------

rhw:
You see Mr Oberg I happen to not only disagree with you, but so does the NY State Dept of Labor concerning issues of 'pressured into resigning''. I had been a Associate College Professor for about 8 years at Clinton Community College from Fall Semester 1993 to Spring Semester 2001 along with NUMOROUS workshops, training seminars for local business employees and often management.

In ALL that time I had been using the topic of SPACE in the teaching to the Introduction to Computers, both at the beginning and intermediate level. On October 16, 2000 I got the permission of the President of the College to follow through with my FOIA against NASA. which I already had approval from my immediate boss the Dean on Continuing Education.

http://commonsensecentral.net/csc_2001/scanned_broken_promises.htm

The above link will tell you PRECISLY the BRUTAL TRUTH of what happened.

Nuances and what they mean can be debated till our heartbeats stop...in the end....the NYS Dept of Labor ruled that CCC had indeed used me as "Full TIme" employee and was forced to pay unemployment,,,for which CCC had NEVER been paying into the NYS Unemployment Fund up to that point since it's inception.

'pressured into resigning' is EXACTLY what CCC had offered me...unlike Mr. Johnston...I REFUSED.

Thus in the end...I was justified...because I was demed by "New York State" to have been "FIRED !!!"

-----------------------------------------------------------

Responding to a request from a media client about the new book and the experts quoted in it, I googled Ken's name and found his biography posted on the JPL Solar System Ambassador home page. Some claims in the biography were at variance with information I had acquired from people who had actually worked with him during Apollo. I requested from JPL whether Ken had provided any documentation for the material, and explained that my request was due to my interest in a new book in which Ken's views featured prominently. I made no suggestions or any kind about Ken's participation in the JPL program, and I offered no judgment of any kind about Ken's opinions regarding the Apollo program.

You will no doubt be caught by surprise by the above description of my message. Before you instinctively choose which version to believe, you might ask Mr. Bara what evidence he has for his insulting allegations about my statements. You may find that he has none but his own imagination.

-------------------------------------------
rhw:

Do you have 'specifics' please? As Stanton Freidman says...let's please see the 'Evidence' of this. I typed Ken Johnston Johnson Space Center into google and could only find HIS name used with the DarkMission book at that at the 5th page. You wouldn't believe some of the interesting 'hits' I got at NASA HDQTRs but not one had his name on it....that's odd to me.

It would be now only be appreciated...but would back up assertions with pertinant facts and brutal truths which is only what I am conerned with. Debating the 'meaning' of these FACTS can come when we HAVE those facts.

----------------------------------------

I am puzzled by your assertion that Ken deserves to see all emails that refer to him. Is this a general rule? Would it apply, for example, to me, regarding emails that Bara and Johnston and Hoagland (and you) have exchanged?

If you think Mr. Johnston, or anybody, has a constitutional right to confront anybody who criticizes them, you are very badly informed, and seriously confused, regarding the Constitution.

In the ordinary world of interpersonal debate and disagreement, you will discover that asking questions from a prosecutorial and inquisitional and threatening tone is a poor tactic, unlikely to end happily.

----------------------------------------------
rhw:

Well Mr. Oberg I hope the above stroy of how after 8 years of teaching AND having the written permission from the College President I was still FIRED from CCC for simply asking proper questions.

If there's nothing to hide...why hide the information, objects or gag people or documents?

=======================

I would assert Mr. Oberg that as a 'mainstream media' person you are like many of the 'mainstream media' that swollowed every lie, hook line and sinker this Administration told us about Iraq and Saddom...conviently forgetting he got his WMD's from us in the 1980's when he was our puppet to fight Iran for us...because the Iranians held a DEMORCRATIC election and ousted the US Imposed SHAH of Iran.

Of the People For the People and By the People

THAT is American.

Dishonesty is our cancer...it will destroy us.

Bob...:D

JimO said...

Robert, I don't think I have any answers that would satisfy you, and you're so far off the topic of this thread we'll never get back to it if you and your troubles become the focus of discussion. You already have posted the link to your website -- people interested in you can go there as they choose.

What remains central to this dispute is Bara's refusal -- clearly, as shown by his posts in the last few days -- his intent is to avoid having to present any checkable evidence that any of his defamatory disinformation he wrote about me (and placed in press releases that are now spread across all of cyberspace) have a shread of supportive evidence.
He remains defiantly delusional about my role in Ken's recent life. Cooler heads -- maybe a few grown-ups -- need to advise him, online or offline, about how tacky this has looked. Come on, we all live and learn, and struggle with our stereotypes every day, towards better understanding.

A word of advice: we are all subject to typos and brain-hiccups in such a dynamic forum as this, but when you are posting as an aggrieved academic professional, it does not do your credibility any good to stress such phrases as "NUMOROUS workshops", "since it's inception", "I was demed to have been 'FIRED' !!!", "you are like many of the 'mainstream media' that swollowed every lie," and I think you mixed up the sequence in your Lincoln quotation (I hate it when that happens), "Of the People For the People and By the People,".. like I said, we all cut a little slack, and we all need a little mercy, but geez....

Gort said...

PBS is airing a show called "Sputnik Declassified" tonight on NOVA. Includes info on Von Braun. Transcript will be available in one to three weeks.
Various articles and photos available as links from program web page. (link below)
Most relevant to Dark Mission is info about the secret spy satelite program under president Eisenhower that 'Ike' "took to the grave." i.e. he never talked about nor mentioned in his memoirs.
Although it didn't come straight out and say NASA was a Department of Defense Agency, the show does dovetail well with the Dark Mission campaign. (And broadcast 3 days after the LAX conference and a week after the NPC press conference) ;)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sputnik/?campaign=pbshomefeatures_2_novabrsputnikdeclassified_2007-11-06

Gort

Joseph P. Farrell said...

Dear Richard and Mike:

Well I thought I'd add my two cents worth, having finally obtained a copy of Dark Mission, and read it twice now...

First, congratulations on its sales!
Second, congratulations on having accomplished a review of the years of work at Enterprise in such a thorough fashion.
Third, congratulations on attracting some serious press attention. By serious press I mean the Europeans and Russians (who can call our Britney Spears-obsessed "press" serious any more?)

Again, job well done and sales well deserved!!!

Joseph P. Farrell

robert said...

Mr. Oberg,

Now that the shuttle is safely home, your MSNBC 'duties' should be lighter and you could return to here....where YOU replied in email to me that THIS is the place where you wish to contiue this discussion...so I copied the email I sent you here...as you can see.

I see the link to my FIRING from CCC was cut off.

This should fix that issue for you, saving you actually going my home page and searching for it...or other things.

FIRED FOR FILLING FOIA

Elections are over...and I am still waiting for specifics to YOUR claims...please do NOT ramble off into what OTHERS have done...I am asking what YOU and said, done or come to know...and FROM WHERE please...

As Stanton Freidman says...let's please see the 'Evidence' of this...regaurding YOUR allegations.

A response would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Bob...

Mike Bara said...

Joseph,

Thanks for the support. Glad you liked the book.

Don't forget to leave a review on Amazon or B&N .com.

Joseph P. Farrell said...

No problem at all Mike, thanks for an enjoyable and informative read!

Joseph F

robert said...

JimO said...
Robert, I don't think I have any answers that would satisfy you, and you're so far off the topic of this thread we'll never get back to it if you and your troubles become the focus of discussion. You already have posted the link to your website -- people interested in you can go there as they choose.
-----------------
rhw:
No Mr.Oberg I AM ON TOPIC. You stated that calling Ken Johnston being FIRED from the Ambassador program was false.

Jimo quoted:
"For example, he tells the story that Ken was 'fired' from NASA, when even Ken only complains that he was 'pressured into resigning' from a non-paying volunteer position, a major difference -- and if you were to ask the JPL person who telephoned him, you might find a different account there, as well."

rhw:
So my 'troubles' as you put are IN FACT...pertinent to this discussion since I give a concrete and solid case that being 'pressured to resign' is IN FACT OF NYS LAW...being FIRED !!!

You want 'mercy'???... let's start with some HONESTY Mr. Oberg.
I am NOT discussing Mr. Bara's actions or claims he may or may have not made against you...I am discussing claims YOU make on the subject of the Dark Mission book...which IS this blog's topicc sir.

-------------------


Jimo said...
What remains central to this dispute is Bara's refusal -- clearly, as shown by his posts in the last few days -- his intent is to avoid having to present any checkable evidence that any of his defamatory disinformation he wrote about me (and placed in press releases that are now spread across all of cyberspace) have a shread of supportive evidence.
He remains defiantly delusional about my role in Ken's recent life. Cooler heads -- maybe a few grown-ups -- need to advise him, online or offline, about how tacky this has looked. Come on, we all live and learn, and struggle with our stereotypes every day, towards better understanding.

A word of advice: we are all subject to typos and brain-hiccups in such a dynamic forum as this, but when you are posting as an aggrieved academic professional, it does not do your credibility any good to stress such phrases as "NUMOROUS workshops", "since it's inception", "I was demed to have been 'FIRED' !!!", "you are like many of the 'mainstream media' that swollowed every lie," and I think you mixed up the sequence in your Lincoln quotation (I hate it when that happens), "Of the People For the People and By the People,".. like I said, we all cut a little slack, and we all need a little mercy, but geez....

November 6, 2007 2:35 PM

============================

rhw:
With all the above Mr. Oberg you still have not answered my questions...you said you 'googled Ken's name and I could not find a NASA reference for five full pages of respones...that's 50. And no "bio" when I searched NASA itself though ALL of NASA...was it your intention to wipe him off the web in NASA completely like some mideaval hagiographer that wants to rewrite history. Im sure the WH adminsitration and mainstream media...of which YOU are a part and therefore PART of the discussion also...would like to rewrite the past 8 years...but that won't be allowed happen.

As far as doing my "credibility any good to stress such phrases as "NUMOROUS workshops", "since it's inception", "I was demed to have been 'FIRED' !!!", "you are like many of the 'mainstream media' that swollowed every lie,"....well I think sometimes think MUST be stressed to show their importance in the discussion....as if someone was just 'skimming' through responses...this attracts their eyes to imporant points. That I was indeed fired for 'being pressured to resign' and refusing to resign. there no caps at all..satisfied? but the point remains....NYS Labor Law disagrees with your position.

And THAT is the brutal truth fact of the matter. Which I think is important to stress...since you asserted it was not...it is...by law.

Again your argument with Mr. Bara is that, with him, not me.

You asked for mercy...I see Mr. Bara has asked you to bullet the points you have issues with.

I shall comply with my issues that remain unresolved from YOUR statements:

bullet #1

jimo stated:
"Some claims in the biography were at variance with information I had acquired from people who had actually worked with him during Apollo. I requested from JPL whether Ken had provided any documentation for the material, and explained that my request was due to my interest in a new book in which Ken's views featured prominently."

rhw:
Which claims in his bio were at variance?

I already know you won't tell me names of people you acquired data from so its a waste of typing to even pose the question.

You asked JPL exactly what documentation Ken had given them for putting a seperate set of 1st generation negatives from Apollo to his old school?

What exactly did you say as to Ken's views to the JPL 'person' you spoke to? Name on that one?


bullet # 2
jimo stated:
I made no suggestions or any kind about Ken's participation in the JPL program, and I offered no judgment of any kind about Ken's opinions regarding the Apollo program.


rhw:
Well it seems you are a little like Hillary Clinton and contradict yourself from one sentence to another. First you say you contacted 'someone' (maybe the Janitor or some intern?) and told them of Ken's views of the Apollo program since you were asking for documentation on the matter. Which is it Mr. Oberg?


bullet #3


jimo stated:
"...and if you were to ask the JPL person who telephoned him, you might find a different account there, as well."


rhw:

How would YOU know who called Ken from the Ambassador program? Did you call that person?

Please remember that I have NOT read the book yet. I have first dibs when my local library gets it's copy that is already ordered. That does NOT disqualify me from questioning your assertions...if you state they are 'in the book' I am sure Mr. Bara or Mr. Hoagland shall either verify that as fact or not.


bulllet #4

jimo stated:
"jimo stated:
"I am puzzled by your assertion that Ken deserves to see all emails that refer to him. Is this a general rule? Would it apply, for example, to me, regarding emails that Bara and Johnston and Hoagland (and you) have exchanged?"

rhw:
Yes it would apply to you if that got you 'fired' or were 'pressured to resign' or 'move to a different beat' and you fought it...in my humble and brutal truth honest opinion. If Mr. Bara and/or Mr. Hoagland...or even myself...were to write to MSNBC or their advertisers and com[lained about your conduct on air coverage of events and they were taken seriously enough to effect something you were involved with and wanted to comtinue and fight it. You would WANT to see those conversatons and accusations wouldn't you? I think you would...be honest and admit.




There are four 'bulleted' items for you to address.

Balls in your court as the saying goes....as yes maybe I did misquote The Conistitution or Decalration of Independance...two open surgeries and a stroke sometimes interferes 'slightly' when I type fast and put together responses. I am busy with many many projects at the moment. So mercy was given by bulleting the points and asked for getting the phrasing....but the NOT the HEART of the passage....mixed.

Bob...:D
http://commonsensecentral.net/

JimO said...

Bob, I'll be discussing these issues directly with Mr. Bara, as you mentioned.

When you write, "Balls in your court as the saying goes....as yes maybe I did misquote The Conistitution or Decalration of Independance...two open surgeries and a stroke sometimes interferes 'slightly' when I type fast and put together responses."

.... shouldn't it be obvious that the solution to looking like a raver is to

t y p e

m o r e

s l o w l y

and proofread?

Otherwise, your message looks -- this is my BRUTAL and candid
advice, which you asked for -- somewhat deranged. I think you have some serious points worthy of serious attention, so my advice is not to let the sloppy 'presentation' get in the way of the message.

JimO said...

Gort, here's more explanatory material on why I connected the famed confablator corso to your allusion to "NASA spy satellite missions". It comes from a long paper by Brad sparks from 1999:

"Another bogus Corso achievement I have already mentioned is his purported takeover of Project Corona, the pioneer U.S. spy satellite. Corso attempts to steal all the credit for Corona but if you read his timeline carefully most of the major R&D and cover-story actions took place in 1960, long before he ever arrived on the scene (pp. 129, 138, 141-142, 145). Corso has done a poor job of reading up on space history from comic books or whatever (since he couldn't have actually worked on the real classified Corona program and gotten things so ridiculously wrong). He claims the most clever innovation was when the Air Force managed to sneak the Corona camera payload on-board an already existing "NASA" civilian satellite project called "Discoverer," which was difficult because it had to be small enough to "fit into" the interior easily and be self-contained (pp. 137-138, 140-142). He imagines that this whole ludicrous endeavor of one agency hiding payloads aboard another agency's satellites was necessitated by NASA assuming control of "ALL satellite launchings" including the military's launches when NASA was created in 1958, a control that purportedly lasted until the 1970 s (pp. 126, 128-129, 138, 144-147, 155-157; emphasis added).

The truth is that Corona was entirely a secret CIA -- not Air Force -- program begun several months BEFORE NASA was even formed. Corona was ordered by President Eisenhower on February 7, 1958, and NASA's first day of operation was on October 1. The cover for the satellites was the AIR FORCE's Discoverer label, which never had anything to do with NASA. It was always publicly associated with the AIR FORCE. NASA never had control of the military's satellite launchings. The existence of a Air Force satellite launch pad completely separate from NASA's Cape Canaveral should settle it. Doesn't Corso read the newspapers? Who does he think has launched satellites from Vandenberg AIR FORCE Base in California from 1959 to the present day? Santa Claus and his elves?

In another proof of Corso's complete ignorance of the Corona project, he invents the following remark by General Trudeau in early 1963, purportedly declaring, "In just a couple of years ... We'll have orbiting satellites mapping every inch of the Soviet Union" (pp. 202-203). Corona satellites had already mapped the USSR by 1963 and proved the nonexistence of the "missile gap," showing there was no huge Soviet ICBM force hidden in Siberia or some other place. You can now even read the official history of CIA s Corona satellite on the Internet and millions of frames of its space reconnaissance photos are now declassified and available to the public. Obviously Corso has a very poor grasp of the Corona satellites function and operational history.

end of Sparks excerpt

Gort, if you go out looking for any evidence that will fit your preconceived conclusions, you will too eagerly swallow -- and regurgitate -- pap like Corso's.
Yuckee.

IonTruO2 said...

Robert:

you said: being 'pressured to resign' is IN FACT OF NYS LAW...being FIRED !!!

In Ontario Canada, being pressured to resign or the work environment/situation/conditions 'being made' to be unworkable or causing the employee to be unable to continue, is referred to as a "Constructive Dismissal"and was created specifically in the 90's to seriously address abuses by employers, that were becoming increasingly widespread. It also made notable references to the willful strategic nature of that employer misconduct.


Same crap, different locale.

robert said...

jimo stated:
"Otherwise, your message looks -- this is my BRUTAL and candid
advice, which you asked for -- somewhat deranged. I think you have some serious points worthy of serious attention, so my advice is not to let the sloppy 'presentation' get in the way of the message.

November 8, 2007 4:48 AM"

rhw:

Well Jimmy in the future I shall TRY to stem the flow of words flying off my finger tips...

BUT....

YOU still have NOT addressed the four bulleted points I raised.

Why not?

There...short consice and to the point...happy?

Bob...:D

Cultural Captivity said...

It's good that JimO can parlay and things can get cleared up. So very civilized :-)

Ion,
The meeting place between science advisors, journalists and disclosure people should always be the truth.

Disclosure should include all if the intention is full court press coverage. The full dog & pony includes JimO - and if JimO wants to ask for clarification, disambiguity or complain about sloppy choice of words - we the audience should allow the questions.

From my understanding, all JimO wants is clarity on Ken's termination. An individual is allowed to say, "I didn't want to leave" and thentell the story of resigning - without self contradiction.

Ken could have said it was a coerced departure. Whether it was coercion by the use of blunt practical powers (you're fired), or the use of persuasion or theoretical power (abuse of authority).

If NY and Ontario don't distinguish between people pushed and people who jump with a gun to their head ... then neither should we.

So, I agree with what you're saying Ion, but you should try to see JimO's visit as a very good sign !

robert said...

Cultural Captivity said...
It's good that JimO can parlay and things can get cleared up. So very civilized :-)

----------
rhw:

Not to pick on you CC ,,, but if you haven't noticed JimO has NOT "cleared up" anything with respect to the four bulleted points I conviently placed in nice and straigh forward list.

He made a reply after I did that...but dodged the questions.

I wonder why...don't you...and everyone else?

--------

Cultural Captivity said...
So, I agree with what you're saying Ion, but you should try to see JimO's visit as a very good sign !

November 8, 2007 12:46 PM

---------

rhw:

His being here WOULD be a 'good sign'...if he simply answered the questions posed to him first time out of the box. How many times do we need to repeat the questions to this "journalist"?

The basic questions in Journalism 101 are:

Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How?

Something I base my site on.

Bob...:D

JimO said...

"How many times do we need to repeat the questions to this 'journalist'? The basic questions in Journalism 101 are:
Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How?"

My journalistic credentials and reputation are not based on your approval or on what you imagine a real journalist does. Your eager-believer swallowing of Mr. Bara's evidence-free reality-challenged accusations, and the absence of any apparent desire on your part for checkable documentary evidence, tells me all I need to know about how you would treat any contradictory evidence that I might present -- you probably have your rejectionist message ready to go.

Nope, I'm not interested in trying to prove anything to you -- that game is rigged. I'm asking Mr. Bara, co-author of a book that he is promoting with delusional defamations, which is an activity for which there are remedies beyond merely blog postings.

Another point:

Despite weeks of urgings on my part, he has also apparently neglected to inform Mr. Hoagland of the potential peril he is placing the commercial project in.

Richard and I go way, way back, with a reservoir of professional regard that has remained immune to differences in interpretation, or even of reality.

I can't help believing that once the grown-ups find out what's been going on, there will be some attitude adjustments.

JimO said...

Bara: "Ken was the manager of the 'Data and PhotoControl' department at the LRL. This is a fact you are well aware of Jim."

Checking an org chart for the LRL, in the archives of the Lunar and Planetary Science Institute, I can't seem to find anything called the 'Data and PhotoControl' department.

All LRL workers received formal, documented certifications for their LRL duties. Does Ken have his certificate(s) that you can post for us to examine?

Would he authorize his former employer to provide that information?

Now, you say he was a 'department manager' at the age of 27, did I do that calculation correctly?

Gort said...

You can now watch the PBS NOVA show about "Sputnik Declassified" online at this page:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sputnik/program.html

It is in 6 chapters.
Gort

robert said...

JimO said...
"How many times do we need to repeat the questions to this 'journalist'? The basic questions in Journalism 101 are:
Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How?"

My journalistic credentials and reputation are not based on your approval or on what you imagine a real journalist does. Your eager-believer swallowing of Mr. Bara's evidence-free reality-challenged accusations, and the absence of any apparent desire on your part for checkable documentary evidence, tells me all I need to know about how you would treat any contradictory evidence that I might present -- you probably have your rejectionist message ready to go.

Nope, I'm not interested in trying to prove anything to you -- that game is rigged. I'm asking Mr. Bara, co-author of a book that he is promoting with delusional defamations, which is an activity for which there are remedies beyond merely blog postings.

-----

rhw:

So you do not want to have ANY interaction with other members on the blog except with Mr. Bara. If so then I suggest your personal dispute to private emails...which you advised me was NOT the way to do things...but YOU sent me an email telling me to ask these questions here in the open ON THE BLOG.

I have done so.

I have NOT done ANY "eager-believer swallowing of Mr. Bara's evidence-free reality-challenged accusations"...I told in advance I have NOT read the book.

I am asking about YOUR unsubstantiated allegations in the 4 bulleted points.

If you are not interested in proving anything to me...then I suggest that you have no interest in trying to get at the BRUTAL TRUTH of the matters at hand.

You will find that I have accused Mr. Hoagland himself as being a gullable as evey other MAINSTREAM reporter at the JPL news conference when they brought out the infamous 'HEAD' image and passed it around to all the journalists there...and then Gerry Soffen who was the Viking Project scientist went in front of the press corps of near a thousand people with the image and the word “HEAD” written on its bottom footer area. Soffen stated “Isn’t it peculiar what tricks of lighting and shadows can do. When we took a picture a few hours later it all went away; it was just a trick, just the way the light fell on it.”

Mr Hoagland like ALL the others swollowed Soffen's statement WITHOUT FACTS IN EVIDENCE !!!

Where was the second picture?

Why wasn't it shown to point out differences?

NO ONE ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS.

Now...YOU are refusing to answer simple strightforward questions.

Not very 'journalistic' of you Mr Oberg...nope not at all.

I have NO..."rejectionist message ready to go" because I do not know what your answers would be.

So...if you won't answer the 4 bulleted ones I posted above can you at least answer this one:

Are you here 'as a representative of MSNBC' and posting here using 'MSNBC equipment'?

THAT answer WOULD be appreciated.

Thank you.

Bob...

Gort said...

There was an incomplete URL in my previous post about "Sputnik Declassified."
Watch it online Here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sputnik/program.html

Gort

JimO said...

"Are you here 'as a representative of MSNBC' and posting here using 'MSNBC equipment'?"

NBC is my primary media client, and all material I obtain is usable for them or other clients. I work out of my home office in Galveston County, Texas, using my own paid-for services.

How about you?

Gort said...

The end of my Sputnik link got cut off again :(

http colon slash slash www dot pbs dot org slash wgbh slash nova slash sputnik slash program dot html

Gort ... staying tuned

JimO said...

The Chinese lunar pictures have begun coming in. Is there any map published that specifies the locations of the alleged lunar domes and ruins that we can use to compare with the new images from Europe, Japan, and now China, and soon to be, India?

China publishes first moon picture
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-11/26/content_7145873.htm