A Forum Dedicated to Discussion of the New York Times Bestseller "Dark Mission - The Secret History of NASA" by Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara
Had to download twice in order to get the whole interview, but I was finally able to listen to it all and I enjoyed it very much.One thing I do feel it is important to understand is that ritually speaking, the Auset/Ausar myth-cycle is not the only game in town. I think you are right on in positing that the Masons 'have a thing' for Egypt, albeit overlaid with Hebrew. They name their pillar replicas [of the twin obelisks that stood outside the pylon-gate of every Egyptian temple] 'Boaz' and 'Jachin', because those were the names of the two pillars of Solomon's temple. While Solomon's temple did copy the Egyptian model, it also fiddled with it a bit, due to particularly Canaanite beliefs. While I do think that the Masons correctly understand the Egyptian underpinnings of Canaan and 'proto-Judaic' mythology, they view everything through a Christian-mythos filter. Thus, they like Ausar/Auset because Ausar is a dying/resurrecting God. They also like to interpret Ausar's bread-offering as a communion-analog, which in a way it is, but what must be understood is that in ancient Egypt, ALL the netjeru got bread-and-food offerings-- 'communion' wasn't unique to Ausar.I think that you are right in pointing out that the Masonic element fixates on Ausar/Auset. They do. But the fixation also arbitrarily truncates ancient Egyptian beliefs, which allotted Ausar his place (as Lord of the Underworld and Judge of the Dead), but did not make him the 'whole show'. That elements of NASA ritual follow the 'Masonic Auset/Ausar bias' kind of indicates to me that they are following Masonic-style dogma and not anything that is truly archaic Egyptian. In short, they may not actually know as much as they like to give the impression of knowing.What does intrigue me is that there may be a sub-set somewhere in this whole mish-mash that does know more about ancient Egypt and the Near East (as everything possibly relates to Mars/Cydonia) than they let on. Case in point, the recent sale (December 2007) of the Guennol Lioness for 57.2 million dollars to an 'anomymous British archaeologist'.I myself have a set of the old Viewmaster discs of the Tom Corbet Mars story with its tetrahedral pyramids and feline Martians. (I got mine as a gift as a kid, so my discs aren't quite as pristine as Mr. Hoagland's.) Thus, when I read that Edgar Mitchell goes to Jean Houston in particular to try to recover his 'Moon memories', I wonder at the synchrony, because Ms. Houston's significant other is one Robert Masters, sexologist and Sekhmet devotee, and both Houston and Masters are part of the New Age/Magickal scene.Back to the Guennol Lioness-- Sotheby's expected it to go for between 14 and 18 million, but the bidding went through the roof, as a couple of anonymous bidders wanted it very badly. The Lioness is a small amulet, and is estimated to be about 5000 years old, based on where it was found (near Baghdad). So now an archaic Lioness that had been on extended exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum of Art for years has been taken 'deep black' by a well-heeled Brit collector. It just really makes me wonder......about Martian Lionesses...Peace,T'Zairis
Yes, I know that the Egyptian bread offering was also used with other gods, but my understanding is that Osiris is the first for who this was performed. Or at least, he was among the earliest and this practice was subsequently adopted for other, later gods.Remember, they are all ancient gods to us, not so for the people living at the time.
As I understand things, Ausar/Osiris was not the first deity of Egypt who was offered bread. Het-Hert/Hathor (who was known as Bat or Ba'At in Predynastic/Proto-dynastic Egypt) received bread-and-food offerings, and she predates the blossoming of the Ausar 'cult'. Isis/Osiris were present in the pantheon, but were not widely venerated until later in Egypt's history.Ausar/Osiris was an important part of ceremonies for the deceased as Judge/Resurrector of the Dead, but the whole 'Isis/Osiris as preeminent deities' thing that most people think of when they think of Egypt didn't really get going until the Middle Kingdom. As far as which triad of deities was most 'popular' really depended on who was Pharaoh. In the Middle Kingdom they tended to like Auset/Ausar, but Amenhotep III was a 'man of Sekhmet' and venerated the Men-Nefer (Memphis) triad of Ptah, Sekhmet and Nefertum. All those statues of Sekhmet that they just dug up in Egypt date to his reign, and they guesstimate that he commissioned at least 700 temple statues of her throughout his life.What I am starting to wonder is whether there are different sets of 'Egyptian tradition' within Masonry. Perhaps it might be something like occult-lodge-influenced groups following Auset/Ausar/Heru, while the we-are-ancient-stonemasons-of-Egypt groups identify with the Ptah-Sekhmet-Nefertum triad.I say this because in the course of some Masonic researches I have been doing (in attempting to find out just exactly what Egyptian mythology they champion), I have run across stuff that indicates there is a ritual reverence of Ptah (the Craftsman God) as the Archetypal Masonic deity: Egyptian mythology refers to Ptah as the literal Builder of Creation, so I think that Ptah is a much better mythological fit for an organization of esoteric stone-masons than Ausar is. I actually found some Masonic Ptah-ritual being discussed among the members of online Masonic bulletin boards, so it's not just me 'guessing' there might be a linkage.What this would also mean is that Sekhmet is in the picture, as she is Ptah's wife, and Nefertum (who was later conflated with the historical Imhotep) was their Lion-headed, healer-architect son. I have to wonder if this Egyptian Lion(ess) connection might be the real origin of the fabled secret 'Lion's Grip' handshake of the Master Mason.There is an additional thing that has made me stop and rethink the whole issue, and that is that Sekhmet is also associated with the star Sepdet/Sothis/Sirius. One of her titles is 'Lady of Sepdet', so it isn't just Auset/Isis who wears that epithet.If I had to guess, I'd say that maybe Orion is the architect/stonemason/craftsman netjer Ptah, Sekhmet is associated with Sirius and the Nile, and Nefertum/Imhotep was their divine/human genius son. Associating Sekhmet with the Nile as well as fire is not such a stretch: Tefnut, another lion-headed goddess who is at times conflated with Sekhmet, is known as the Mother of Moisture, and all Egyptian Lioness goddesses-- including Sekhmet-- are associated with wadis/oases and the Isheru/Asheru, which were the manmade 'sacred lakes' that existed just outside the hypostyle areas of Egyptian temples. Another of Sekhmet's titles is 'Lady of the Asheru'.If you Google 'Ptah masonic ritual', you may be able to find some of the bulletin board discussions out there. 'Masonic handshakes lion's grip' should pull up some sites that document all the grips and their 'passwords'.Additionally, I found that the Guennol Lioness was being discussed on one of the Masonic forums I visited, with one poster likening her 'paws-together' stance as 'perhaps a form of the Lion's Grip', although not everybody on the forum agreed. It is interesting to me that the statuette was being discussed at all in a Masonic context.Peace,T'Zairis
It may interest you to know that in the videothat was pulled that contained one of KeithLaney's "rats," there was also a frame withwhat appeared to be a terrestrial type blackcat, looking under a rock ledge, as if aftera mouse.The midsection, hind quarters, legs, feetand tail were plainly visible, and I wouldguess it was a tomcat.And yet, this supposedly was on MARS....I still wonder why the video was pulled....:-)Hathor -- On the Front Cover of VogueP.S.: The "Laney Rat" was shown full frontal,standing upright, ears forward, nose down,looking straight at the lander, from only afew feet away.Cute little fella...curious, too....Looks a bit more like some kind of littlebear or something....:-)
Mike,Listened to the interview - very nice way for me to cap reading your book. I am interested what your thoughts are as to: whether the Lunar X-Prize could bypass via private sector execution, the NASA filtration of potential images it would gather on the moon?
By the way, here is the website discussing Lunar X-Prize (Google's). http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/Dark Mission book made a sound case explaining gov't filtering and/or spin of lunar/mars data. Cheers to Richard for following up on his face on Mars original that I read years ago, particularly to respond to the sandbox images. My previous entry was a bit brief. I guess what I'm curious about is the privatization developments for space exploration. Does the privatization of lunar exploration mean encouraging things for people who want to see the moon clearly?
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