Friday, June 6, 2008

Listen to Richard C. Hoagland's Speech to the Libertarian Party Convention

From 5/23/2008

Part 1 of 11

Part 2 0f 11

Oh, all right Sword, here 'ya go. Geez, I just got back from Vegas and I haven't even had a chance to watch this week's Battlestar Galactica yet...

Part 3 of 11

Part 4 of 11

Part 5 0f 11

Part 6 of 11

Part 7 of 11

Part 8 of 11

Part 9 of 11

Part 10 of 11

Part 11 of 11


leeo said...

Thanks for posting. Im listening to it now. Fascinating.

Unknown said...

Someone had said that was a smear site. I went there to check it out, and while it might not make Barr look all that great- There is nothing there that is not true. It seems more like a fact site then a hit site. So before posting that it is a smear site. You should do some fact checking, you must not be that familuar with Bob Barr or Wayne Root. So for whoever posted that message. If you think that the facts make Barr or Root look bad then maybe you just shouldnt vote for them. You mentioned that the domains were for sale. If the Barr Camp cared they would just buy the domains. If any one else wants to check out the site and make their own determinatin if it is a smear site, I will leave the link. Its like barr root08... here it is.

Rich Riggs said...

I am already suspicious of the loss of daily information about the Phoenix if the toilet on the ISS is more our speed. The 'lost' information includes; the 'spire' from sol1, The status of the robotic arm, the pre-programmed instruction set that NASA said would execute the mission even if "all control signals to the craft were lost". We need a real "free press" in this society as much as anything else to protect us from a totalitarian tyrancy becoming more entranched than the oligarchy that fosters that kind of condition. One too infrequently spoken of loss of freedom that came with the patriot act is the requirement of the press to have 'proper permits' to 'legally' attempt to simply report government events no less to pierce the vail of secrecy on intent...

ijeannie said...

Can you guys start Twittering, PLEASE!!!! I'd love to follow you guys!!!! Great and fast way to keep us updated. Thank you!

individual not social said...

I look forward to hearing more Hoagland talks on venues other than Coast which is always a treat don't get me wrong. How about Jeff Rense?

Interesting to see Drudge posting an article on John McCain calling for a mission to Mars.

Hoagland mentioned on Coast last month that Mars Moon mission will come up more during the campaign.

HHMSS Sword said...

okay's great - whats next - and how long do I have to wait?


Mike Bara said...

I think Jeff Rense is a money-grubbing, self serving, back stabbing anti-semetic piece of shit, and I don't think Richard likes him as well as I do. Is that clear enough?

Seriously, I know a lot of things about Rense that would curl your hair.

zirothree said...

I never got good vibes from Rense. I have listened to his show a few times though. As a side note, why are all the pictures they show of Mars on CNN or the AP in black and white? Why do they even take black and white photos? Is there a reason for that?

marsandro said...

Hello orion28,

It's a simple way to avoid the color issue

Why argue over the color of the Martian
sky (or anything else for that matter) if
"there ain't any?" (Color, that is.)


Hathor -- the Super Moose of the...

Wait a minute. We already left that thread,
didn't we....


Mike Bara said...


The cameras that NASA sends to Mars usually have multiple filters on them, including red, green and blue (RGB) and usually some in the near IR range. Each of these filters transmits a grayscale image that can be later combined into an appoximate true color image, if you know the actual conversion values for this process. This is covered in chapter 11 of Dark Mission if you want to reference it there. Keith Laney also has quite a bit about this on See also my previous post:

And Dr. Gil Levin addresses this as well. There's a link to one of his papers in the post I refered you to.

zirothree said...

I was just trying to stoke the flames. Sorry!

The color photos are just so much better. Maybe we are so used to seeing Martian pictures it's no big deal anymore.

Gort said...

I loaded the first four segments into my songs library on iTunes and was amused to find them listed as "Genre: Blues." :)

Listened and they are good.
Waiting for the "more to come."


Thorn Harefoot said...

Linda Moulton Howe has a photo from the lander on her site in an article about how (supposedly) NONE of the dirt scooped up by the robotic arm made it through the screen designed to keep large chunks of stuff out of the equipment. In the photo, the little American flag on the top of the lander is visible, and it shows the colors to be badly skewed-- the red stripes fade and the blue field looks black. The bottom line is, sunlight is sunlight, even when there is dust/ash in the atmosphere: during the wildfires last year here in California, blue things still looked blue even when the sky was bright orange and everybody was choking on ash from the smoke plumes.

As far as Phoenix's dirt-scooping expertise goes, I am wondering if it is actually Phoenix on Mars. Maybe it's Futurama's Bender... on a bender. I can see it now-- robotic arm drunkenly flailing and dirt flying everywhere so as to cover up all those embarrassing crinoid fossils...



Thorn Harefoot said...

This was just to weird to let go: while looking up some stuff on the Phoenix lander, I ran across a mention of a 'Martian Cat logo' that had been created by the University of Arizona Marketing Dept (and which won a Silver ADDY advertising award). It was used in Aug. of 2007 for a special 'Mars Madness' event at the Pima Air and Space Museum celebrating the Phoenix launch. My curiosity was piqued, and I scoured the Net for a pic of the logo, which proved remarkably hard to find for something that the public was told to print out and bring to the museum for a free admission for the Mars exhibit. I finally scored a pic of the logo at the website of a Tucson newspaper, and I have downloaded a copy of it into my own little 'Mars Felines' file. The article with logo is at the following url:

The red Phoenix-bird (Bennu-bird if one is using the Egyptian name for it) is shown superimposed on a feline-head-shaped sky with several stars in it. Looks like there's a 'hot canary' right on the tip of Sekhmet's tongue! Honestly, if one made up stuff like this for a fictional story, people would pan it as 'too obvious' or 'too hokey', but it is there in the logo-- a kind of Mars sky-shadow-cat (which, incidentally, is BLUE in the logo, not dust-rust fake-red) surrounding the Phoenix... Sekhmet's 'song-bird', perhaps? Then again, maybe not...



zirothree said...

I'm not so sure about the flag. The only thing to me is the colors look muted. It could be the sun wasn't overhead and it was taken at low light so the colors weren't popping. I have no background in photography so its all just wild guessing.

Adrian said...

as I already posted in

"NASA to Make Annoucement Today - Have They Found Planet X?"

with the links to the photos..

they (as in NASA) still "smudge" the photos to give the gullible the impression that its "very red" altogether on the "red planet"

and they still get away with it...they think :-)

Gort said...

That is a great find! Of course there is a reasonable explanation (cover story) but it sure fits in with the whole Tom Corbett viewmaster and half-humanoid/half-feline (lioness?) Face on Mars scenario. I love your "hot canary" (Tweety Bird?) on the cat's tongue impression. LOL

The Martian Cat logo appears to be derived from one of the sports logos of the University of Arizona Wildcats. See an example here:

If the official school colors are followed, the red would be "Arizona Red" (Pantone 200)
and the blue would be "Arizona Blue" (Pantone 281) and white would be white.

There is also this page about the Tuscon Advertising Federation ADDY awards:

Several Phoenix Mission Marketing Projects Win ADDY Awards

Note the logo to the left side for "podcats" which also resembles the "Mars Cat."
(There is a podcast of a May 22, 2008 Interview with former astronaut Frank Borman
and a podcast of a May 29, 2008 Interview with Peter Smith, Alfred McEwen, UA Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, among others...)

There is also a link on this page for an eight minute video "Up from the Ashes: The Phoenix Mars Mission", which won a gold ADDY.

I just recently came across a depiction of the Egyptian Phoenix (Ben-nu Bird), an Ibis perched on a triangle, along with a discussion of the sacred Ben-ben Stone in this book:

Seed of Knowledge, Stone of Plenty: Understanding the lost technology of the ancient megalith builders
Authors: John Burke, Kaj Halberg
ISBN: 1-57178-184-6
Publisher: Council Oak Books
Pages: 286

It is an interesting and scientific look at the uses of megalithic terrestrial monuments and structures. It considers the electromagnetic effects on consciousness (including enhanced hallucinatory visions) and the enhancement of seed fertility by the placing of these structures at or near discontinuities in the earth's magnetic field.


Gort said...

Be careful, that Martian Cat logo on the Tuscon Citizen web site can only be viewed once before you have to "register".

Do your "Right Click--Save Target As" the first time...

4 warned is 4 armed ;)

Thorn Harefoot said...

Hi, Gort...

Yeah, I crawled through the page listing all the ADDY Awards while on the hunt for the 'Mars Cat'. I assumed they didn't post a pic because it only won a Silver Award and not a Gold.

I agree with you that the logo has 'plausible deniability' with regard to being read as code for 'there's-a-really-really-big-cat-on-Mars'. I suppose that's why the ears in the logo have little wildcatty tufts on them. I am, however, bothered by something, which is that usually once a logo is chosen for some project or event, all the promo stuff features only the event logo. The idea is that the logo is THE symbol being used for ease of public recognition when the publicity kicks in. So if the logo for the Phoenix Lander is a swirly Phoenix-bird, 1) what more do you need, and 2) why confuse the issue by adding another-- and basically unrelated-- logo?

I just have a smidge of trouble envisioning a multi-million dollar space project with scads of carefully crafted publicity poster/photos (along with its own proprietary logo) going in for a spot of 'rah-rah-be-true-to-your-school' sentiment out of pretty much nowhere. My guess is that if the UA mascot was a bear, we would not have seen a similar 'Martian bear' logo. As far as the whole Phoenix project is concerned, the athletic mascot of UA is a non-sequitur-- it is completely unrelated to and not illustrative of anything the project is doing...

...unless it just so happens to be a cat, which DOES fit right in with all the 'feline monuments on Mars' stuff that has been discussed at Enterprise Mission and other places on the Internet for many, many years.

I am just very interested in the fact that the Mars-sky-cat is BLUE, and has got some stars in it that are reminiscent of Apollo patches, although I don't see anything obvious-- like Orion's Belt-- in their positioning. Again, it's plausibly deniable: the 'it's just the school colors' gambit, but again, after what has been discussed for YEARS about the overt color manipulation of Mars pix, I personally would not buy it.



individual not social said...

Didn't expect such a crass, violent response to Jeff Rense. I guess I am naive and unable to see Hoagland or his associates respond in such a tone. There is probably more that meets the ear so to speak. In any case, I read the online criticism and Rense definitely has a bizarre past. When I first heard his show and read his website bio, I was skeptical having never ever heard of him. He's beef seems to be with Zionists covertly running foreign policy. I do like the guests crossover with Coast To Coast. I quite like David Icke. Does he have issues with you guys? Anyway, continue the excellent work. Thanks posting Richard's speech.

Mike Bara said...

Trust me. My feelings about Rense are based on personal experience.

marsandro said...

Hi T'Zairis,

Since it seems that somebody on Mars is or
has been familiar with Cats, it would seem
to me to stand to reason that just naturally
one would expect the Pathfinder to capture
an image of---a pussycat!---exploring amid
the steppes on Mars.

"Intolerable cold...sparse, unbreathable atmosphere...."

Yeah. Right. In a pig's eye.

There are CATS up there!

Actual, for really and truly, just like my
Claudette, furry, purring, PUSSYCATS!!!!!

More "Green Pets?" :-))))


Hathor -- The ORIGINAL Cat Woman



P.S.: I wonder what the little "Mousie Bear"
things are? Besides curious about the
Pathfinder, I mean?


HHMSS Sword said...


It's the weekend - and we don't have the last three parts of the audio?

Its a bit dry - and a re-hash of the same old same old - but I'm hanging on for something new...

C'mon Bara - pony up the last three...


Mike Bara said...


Prob tomorrow by noon PT. I do have a social life, you know... really...

Shamus said...

I was listening To Richard and a question ran arcross my mind. Could the domes be made visable, and height of the dome depicted by using high powered lasers on Earth to scatter the laser beam through these glass strutures?

marsandro said...

Hooray for shamus!

Now THERE is a man who knows how to think!

Light 'em up and click the shutter!

Now all we need is some way to prove that
Mars has pussycats! (Besides the Pathfinder
images, that is.)

Maybe we could try sending "cat calls" over
the SETI apparatus? ... ;-) ...


< o||
(= o-)
< o||

Mike Bara said...

Sorry, I've exceeded the monthly bandwidth on my file sharing site, so the next three files will have to wait for about two weeks.

Unless somebody knows of a free file hosting site that can handle 15mb mp3's and the associated bandwidth.

LouieG said...

what the cost for a one-time burst over the agreed BW ?
I'm thinking a collection plate passed around this forum would shorten the wait

Unknown said...

Mike Bara said...

Okay, fixed with new links for the last three. Give 'em a try and let me know.

ijeannie said...

I can't listen to your files. It says you exceeded you bandwith limit!!! Please host these files at the same place you have 9,10, and 11. It seems I can never hear this speech. :(

BTW, can you also please post the video from the Nov. 2007 Press Conference. I've been searching everywhere for it.

Also, please have Richard start using or you. Would really love to know what you guys are doing, as it happens. :)

LouieG said...


marsandro said...

Hey Mike,

Would your own server be out of the question?

After all, you'd need at least an ISDN line
(if not a T1) and THAT certainly would run
a monthly bill.

The computer, of course, would be a one-time
expense (less the maintenance)...and the
LINUX you should use is available FREE....

Just a thought....


Hathor - Maybe it's the light in her eyes....


Shamus said...

In Richards speech he says something to the fact that Star wars might hidden history... would that make Luke, Hourus ...? Are we the clones or the wookies

Sphinx said...

Thanks for posting this Mike!
For now I receive the following message:

"Bandwidth exceeded :(

This file is unavailable because
this user has ran out of bandwidth.
Please try again later."

Hope to listening soon.

HHMSS Sword said...

I will use this venue to ask a simple question that was not answered previously... ...what on earth... ...leads us ... the moon... the "Fortress" orbiting Saturn FROM LORE ... regarding ancient Egyptian knowledge?







Gort said...

here is another Mars kitty for you.

It's in the lower right corner of this picture and looks like a snow lion with a ZZ-Top white main, a black beret and snow gogles!

This is from the Phoenix right imager. The "lion" is small and probably "just a rock", but it's a mighty hairy rock!

Here is a look from the left imager

Here's another angle, from the right imager. the "lion" is in the lower left corner.

Here's one from the left iamger. Lion in lower left corner.


Mike Bara said...

I'm all ears Sword...

Also, I will try to move all the Hoagy speech Mp3's to a site without bandwidth limits tonight - but no promises.

marsandro said...

Hey Mike,

Re: the following:

"Unless somebody knows of a free file hosting site that can handle 15mb mp3's and the associated bandwidth."

What would be wrong with putting the audio
on a video track with a fixed slide of some
kind and putting the whole thing on YouTube?

They're free, they can handle the bandwidth,
and all it takes is a little file conversion work
you should be able to handle easily. (Well,
that's MY opinion, anyway!)

Also, the static video slide results in a
file that loads up fast. There's practically
no waiting involved.

Whatcha think?


Hathor - Playing beachball...


Mike Bara said...

Ok, should all be fixed now.

robert said...

I sent Mike and email which I hope will help with this mp3 issue and other future things that he and Richard might want to do.

And T'Zairis as for the Red/blue/phoenix logo...this is going to sound sexist (not meant to be) but it's true...first thing Inoticed were the two "nipples" sticking up.

Hope the emails will help both folks keep 'spreading the word of brutal truths.


robert said...

cooment for link for email follow-ups.

IonTruO2 said...

Illuminating the dome from earth via laser is a great idea.

This halo, seen as my profile pic, appeared first as a 'sun dog' but reached full 'brightness' and form when 3 'sun dogs' had appeared.

How powerful would a laser...or 3... really have to be, to punctuate the remnant glass dome with light?

Biological_Unit said...

How powerful would a laser...or 3... really have to be, to punctuate the remnant glass dome with light?

That's a Trick Question - there are NO Glass Domes on the Moon.
YOU have to PROVE it, I don't have to "disprove" it !!

marsandro said...

Hello iontruo2,

Power is not so much the issue as beam
collimation (i.e., "keeping the beam from
spreading out too much").

I presume you are assuming an Earth-based

Probably something on the order of around
40 watts to about 200 watts ought to suffice
for a little "photography session."

A good tunable-dye type laser probably would
be best to use---so as to catch the right
spectrum for best illumination. (After all,
what's the exact composition of the "glass?"
It *could* be transparent aluminum!)

Will the camera be Earth-bound as well, or
will it be in space? Or on the Moon?

What's the plan?


Mike Bara said...

Wow, Unit actually sends a post I'm willing to allow, then he turns around and calls us all "fags."

Oh well, I gave you one more chance Unit... now you're gone forever.

But he actually makes a point. We have to prove it, not the other wat around.

The issue with lasers is not beam spread -- we've been shooting lasers at the Moon since the 60's -- it's hitting the glass facets just right to create a reflection.

We already have all the proof we need. Download some of the NASA pictures we cite and do the color enhancemnts yourselves, the pinks and purples and rainbows are already defacto proof of light scatter through glass domes.

And speaking of lasers, remind me sometime to tell you the stories about the 2003 Mars opposition and telescopes...

marsandro said...

Hi Mike,

The point about collimation bears directly
upon luminance at the target: specifically,
less collimation, less luminance.

The idea is to maximize the light available
for photography (presumably from Earth).
Moreover, the direction of illumination is
essentially the same as the LOS (line of
sight) for the photography, hence my use
of the term "luminance."

Even wave polarization can get into it....

Also, the idea should be oriented more
towards "refraction" than simple reflection
(though both can be used, of course), as
a major objective should be to cause the
dome(s) to "luminesce." Simple reflection
does not achieve this.

I would much rather have a picture of what
appears to be an "internally lit" dome than
just an outline of the outer surface.

Then again, your preferences may differ....

Now, as to merely bouncing laser beams
off the Moon, the requirements for that are
a far cry from photographic requirements
(especially if one is using ordinary film).

Phototransistors and electronic amplifiers
are not your Pentax with Ektachrome....

You're trying to get an *image*, not just
read a return-pulse.

It's actually a very different problem, with
a lot more to consider.


Oh, and let's not forget Hathor...


IonTruO2 said...

Shamus said...

I was listening To Richard and a question ran across my mind. Could the domes be made visible, and height of the dome depicted by using high powered lasers on Earth to scatter the laser beam through these glass structures?

Should have quoted Shamus re: my laser comment earlier.
Very important for the reading impaired who just can't follow the gist.(BU)

Exactly BU's point is why I concurred with Shamus. Even Richard and Mike are somewhat to be doubted even with their images and subsequent analysis, so lets conceive of a way or two for the layman joe normal to perhaps check it out and prove or disprove it via a ground method. Surely it could only be supportive/reinforcing of Richard and Mike's conclusions in the positive outcome.

Tks to marsandro for his input. 40 to 200 watts seems realizable for a savvy civilian. Heck a good Music Industry person or concert crew, has access to decent lasers. (eh? Wayne)
I personally don't know either way whether one 'could' illuminate the remnant dome effectively to capture an image, but the notion is compelling.

Remember the guy who ran a public broadcasting station in BC who recorded ALL the Shuttle feeds, unscrambled, and later discovered anomalous 'critters'(?) in close proximity to the Shuttles?

How about this recent guy who is filming the fleet of ships in orbit..that aren't the ISS?

Now John Walson is imaging the Moon very close, so I say it has potential.

(sorry for the Rense link. I am not a fan of his at all)

Thorn Harefoot said...


Howled with laughter over the nipples on the cat-ears! I was bugged from a design/aesthetics point of view by their squarish shape-- your take on it is interesting because Sekhmet is always shown bare-breasted in Egyptian statuary and painting. Occasionally, she has on a shift-type dress with wide straps that cover her breasts, but even when she is portrayed like that, her nipples are still depicted and in an interesting way-- they are drawn like flowers, with the nipple itself as the center, and the aureole is rendered as looped petals. It gives her the look of having a daisy at the tip of each breast.

Egyptologists have this semi-weird idea that the flower-nipples are some kind of stylized rendition of 'the spiral of hairs on a lion's chest', but other cultures in the area use the same kind of floral symbol to depict the Sun. Many Goddesses (like Inanna, for one) are shown with an eight-petaled daisy-like flower to show that they were identified with the Sun. So is Sekhmet, in a big way.

The other thing that is interesting about the 'breast-emphasis' is that there are murals at Kom Ombo showing the pharaoh being suckled by Sekhmet. In ancient Egypt, children who were sucked by a woman were considered as 'born of her body', even if they were not her natural children, and siblings suckled by the same woman referred to one another as 'brother' or 'sister', even though they were not genetically related.

In the case of the pharaohs, there are lots of suckling murals showing them being nursed by one Goddess or another-- probably whichever one was their 'personal deity', and this depended on what nome of Egypt they were from. The important thing was that being suckled by the Goddess meant that you were officially 'born of her body', which meant you were literally a God.

I would expect that 'magickal types' would be very aware of this, and it makes me wonder if the nipples-on-ears of the Mars Cat logo references this. The divinely suckled magicians are the ones 'in the know', and it could be that they are depicting the Divine Breast of Sekhmet for the same reasons that the pharaoh shown in the Kom Ombo murals did.



Gort said...

Are you people nuts, shooting industrial lasers at the moon? :)

You're liable to injure or piss-off some of "our" troops, who have been up there since 1962 (according to John Lear.)

Not to mention the space brothers (and sisters).

Always make sure the range is clear before pointing a weapon at a target.

There must be a less intrusive way to get those photos. :)


Gort said...

Interesting typestyle on the Phoenix logo from the Canadian Space Agency Mars Weather page.

note the "o" as the symbol for mars (and male) and the "e" similar to the stylized planet in the upper right hand logo on :)

The logo itself (swirly tailed bird against a mars globe) is the same but the type on the official Phoenix website (university of arizona) is different.


Anonymous said...

I am thinking laser light scattering through a large structure like that would show up on some part of the spectrum, maybe ultra violet photography. According to the work done by Dark Mission ( Hoagland-Bara) a Geo metric pictur,e a floating above the moon would appear... what if we take a weather balloon,, float a bad ass laser to the edge of space. There would be no atmosphere in the way now... maybe even at incorporate a solid rocket booster to take it close enough to really maximize its effect. Though Mr. Bara would probably have in inject a little hard core engineering to really work this kinda idea out.. I imagine a lot of optic work on this one.Mr.Bara makes a great point when he says they have science without a shadow of a doubt their; the case about the moon about the moon is over. However i would like to offer the fact that we still have so much resistance to the truth, it begs us to consider what will wake the uneducated majority. As for the idea of how the laser might be seen... well lets remember that guarding the sensibilities of those who plan to let you die or use you without regard like a tool only lends to appeasement... it didn't help in world war 2 either.

HHMSS Sword said...

If your going to film or shot lazers at the moon (my eyes!!!)- do it this way/day:;_ylt=ApILs10DTxlwQ2jav_mOJXIDW7oF

Anonymous said...

The links to files 3 and 4 are the same. I think #4 needs to be corrected.

Mike Bara said...

Okay, link is fixed.

Snowball said...

What does it take to have watertight proof of all what is being said? My guess is that it doesn't matter because there will be enough people around who refuse to except the truth.The truth is because technology and science is held back multi billion of dollars on science projects and research all over the world is being wasted for obvious reasons. We are fed lies and kept stupid by folks who think they are a better breed of human. It is sickening and it should be time to round these people up and convict them for crimes against humanity.

KZ said...

Mike: why wasn't the robot head covered in moon dust if it had been lying there for eons?