A Forum Dedicated to Discussion of the New York Times Bestseller "Dark Mission - The Secret History of NASA" by Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara
As the saying goes..."Who you going to believe, NASA or my lying eyes"?Liquid Water Phoenix SiteBob...:D
Is good to hear that another former NASA scientist can finally speak free. Is interesting the fact that if you want to express your ideas you must be a FORMER employee of NASA.....you know...like in a fascist regime. :)
"Is interesting the fact that if you want to express your ideas you must be a FORMER employee of NASA....."Lets face it, NASA is an intelligence agency....No different from the CIA, FBI, or the NSA.Who knows what goes on behind close doors during a job interview.Potential NASA employees may have to signed all kinds of non-disclosure forms and other legal junk.....
I am thankful for every last person who speaks up and points out 'inconvenient' data that contravenes the status quo. Below is the url for a concise, clearly written article that takes to task the enshrining of Einstein and his 'elimination' of the aether. It also points out the same 'spin/rotation has anti-grav effects' as do TEM papers, etc.http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/thornhill.htmAll I can say is thank goodness that TEM and people like Thornhill, et al, are looking at actual data instead of galloping about on self-generated, 'gedankenexperimenten' mind-ponies.Delightfully, the HD/Plasma Cosmology model says that HD trans-light (a.k.a. 'warp') speeds are part of how the Universe works, so... no speed limits! Woohoo! [Cue Van Halen; 'I Can't Drive 65' ;o3]Peace,T'Zairis
@ ks15"Potential NASA employees may have to signed all kinds of non-disclosure forms and other legal junk....."Yeah, in this days you sign a non-disclosure ageement even if you r a beta tester for EA games.But if you find out that the guys of EA have purchasing 20 german shepherds and shot them down with real bullets just to see how they died for helped the animation team to do a better work what do you do?Keep this secret just because you have sign a paper?This is bull
Nondisclosure paper or not - nothing compares to just having b*lls of steel. Its in our heritage as a country (well, was).
Hi T'Zairis,It just so happens that I am theguy who reported to the AmericanPhilosophical Society back in 1974that the 1905 photoelectric paper"by Einstein" was in actual facta plagiarism of Charles F. Brush'ssecond paper of 1880.There was a brief uproar, then silence.Typical.But what else do we know?1. Einstein actually ripped off his ideasfrom his wife, Marlena, who later divorcedhim for it. (TEM website, with the evidencepresented.)2. The math for Special Relativity wasexecuted by Minkowski, not Einstein.Einstein couldn't follow it.3. The math for General Relativity wasexecuted by Riemann, not Einstein.Einstein finally said, "I don't understand it(Relativity) anymore."He had already publicly declared the mathfor Relativity Theory to be---and I quote---"incomprehensible."And last but not least:4. Every single postulate of both Specialand General Relativity has been utterlydestroyed by a myriad of concise andabsolutely unambiguous experiments, allwell replicated.One wonders why people still cling to it....Hasn't Dr. Gunter Nimtz made his point wellenough yet?Sheesh....:-)Hathor - Revelling In The Superluminal;-)P.S.: Hey David,"Balls of Steel," suspended between parallelbars with string, are exactly how you candemonstrate why longitudinal waves aresuperluminal, while waves with nonzerotransverse components have what we calla "characteristic propagation velocity."Newton had the idea pegged......and didn't even know it....:-)
Sigh. Would it surprise anyone to learn that the man in question is NOT a 'former NASA scientist'? NEVER worked for NASA? This doesn't reflect on the merits of his claims -- see my home page www.jamesoberg.com for context -- but does on the carelessness of press coverage and the drooling credibility of the target audience.He is a PhD astrophysicist on the Harvard faculty who helped build a science instrument donated to a NASA scientist, worthy labors -- that may be the source of the misreporting -- but in terms of understanding spaceflight operations, he starts from the same point that anyone does.
Thank you for the clarification.
Marsandro--It's cool that you reported on the Einstein plagiarism in 1974! I think that part of the cling-to-Einstein-like-a-limpet mindset has to do with not wanting to appear foolish in front of one's peers and/or having one's 'life work' completely invalidated from the get-go.However, I think that there is another thing in play here, and that is the sequestering of advanced technology and the HD physics behind it. If people are preoccupied with constantly having to 'fix' Einstein, they won't be asking inconvenient questions about spin-boosted orbits, etc., and all remains safely hidden. Also, if they are stuck in a befuddled Einsteinian headspace, they are not going to think things like trans-light velocities are possible. When one opens the HD physics door, then T. Townsend Brown, Antoine Priore and Plasma cosmology start making a whole lot of sense. Once that happens, it then becomes a matter of folks asking, 'Who knew about this new physics/anti-grav stuff, and when did they know it?' That question will be followed by the inevitable next one: 'If this has been known about for so long, why have we and the planet all been condemned to horrendous suffering just to gratify the whims of a few greedy moral bankrupts?'At any rate, as time passes, more and more data is amassed that puts the lie to Einstein, which in my book, is a good thing. I know I run across more 'serious problems with Relativity' stuff now than I did say, five years ago. When things finally pop, a lot of libraries are going to be getting rid of a lot of science books...Peace,T'Zairis
I get the uproar on the Einstein plagiarism case... But i wonder why Charles F. Brush's paper was dismissed and not taken serious? Are we talking like word for word plagiarism? This seems like something that would really distroy the crediable nature or any scientist... are we as culture not allowed to question Einstein becasue we are not allowed to look at the possiablity of faster then light speed travel...even time travel even?
Hi Shamus,It was precisely the negativeresponse to Brush's work that'allowed it's burial deep enoughin the literature to allow it tobe plagiarized in the first place.Einstein doubtless came across the patentsof Brush while working in the Swiss PatentOffice, and became interested in Brush's works.Einstein would have discovered the 1880paper through an index.Since the paper was 25 years old, and therewas no way for anyone to check the originsof "Einstein's" paper, it was custom madefor plagiarizing.People's attitudes on "quantum phenomena"had changed over the previous 25 years.While Brush was practically egged off thepodium, Einstein was hailed as a "greatgenius." Talk about a double slap in theface for Brush.It was the summer of 1974, and I was atthe Centenary Library (alma mater of VanCliburn, by the way), looking up papersby Einstein, as it was my protocol neverto criticize what I had not at least read.(Too bad none of my physics professors everthought like that.) I was reading the 1905photoelectric paper, when I realized thatthe text seemed familiar.I photocopied the paper on an old (but newthen) Xerox 1000 Mega-Dinosaur Copier, andtook it to the house. I then pulled down mycollected works of Brush (gathered from thelibrary at Texas A&M a year or so earlier)and started flipping pages.First paper...no match. Second paper..."SON OF A !@#$%&*!"I *immediately* composed a letter to theAmerican Philosophical Society in Cleveland.I couldn't get it to the Post Office fastenough, and I had a 429 4V Gran Torino.I received a reply within about ten days,expressing shock at what I had shown them.I gave them the appropriate citations so theycould see it for themselves.It hit the news within a few days.As I said...uproar...then silence.I think the ADL got involved, but I onlyspeculate.Einstein basically paraphrased a couple ofsentences, and quoted the rest right outof Brush's paper.That would get a graduate student kickedclean the blazes out of school.And all these years we've all been made tobow down to the golden image of SaintEinstein?Let's just say Einstein is one of my pethates.So...every time some schmuck begins anexplanation of physics with "Einstein said,"I have to suppress my Zeussian tendencyto want to put a quantum vacuum poweredlightning bolt up his lower posterior anatomy.And that's not even taking into account themaligned works of Kantor, Birge, and Milleranciently, leave alone Chiao, Wang, Hau andthe redoubtable Gunter Nimtz in more recenttimes.The superluminal? We're SWIMMING IN IT!Just google those names and get a load.:-)Hathor -- Introducing the young Germanplagiarist to some of the more..."intense"examples of the thousand names of Sekhmet;-)P.S.: Oh---T'Zairis,If you haven't seen the collected works ofThe Sourcebook Project of Dr. William R.Corliss, you are in for a treat.Talk about putting Einstein in his place....Also see Nature, July 11, 1964, for a paperby Dr. Erwin J. Saxl concerning experimentswith an electrically charged torque pendulum.Note especially what he says about theprinciple of equivalence...and the factthat he and Einstein were post-doctoralstudents together (so Saxl knew the greatplagiarist personally).;-))
So who is having a CERN party on Wednesday? BYOB..."CERN fires up new atom smasher to near Big BangBy ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS – 2 hours agoGENEVA (AP) — It has been called an Alice in Wonderland investigation into the makeup of the universe — or dangerous tampering with nature that could spell doomsday.Whatever the case, the most powerful atom-smasher ever built comes online Wednesday, eagerly anticipated by scientists worldwide who have awaited this moment for two decades."
@marsandroCould you give a link to this second paper you talk about. After doing a bit of searching I havent been able to locate it on the net.I would really like to read it myself.
Marsandro--Looking forward to getting acquainted with Wm. Corliss and Saxl. I've had some stupid stuff I had to take care of at work the last couple of weeks, but I will soon have a spot of time for some more 'digging around'.I think a lot of the problem with Einstein's 'enshrinement' is that the people doing the initial enshrining didn't want to get caught being groupies rather than serious researchers who thoroughly vetted sources. Those who followed the original EFBs (Einsteinian Fan-Boys) got indoctrinated and trained to accept Einstein without examining the origins of his work too closely-- Sekhmet forbid they should discover their mentors were following an emperor-with-no-clothes, or that their mentors' egos were more important than accurate attribution and testable theory.I have also been chuckling over the fact that you have apparently been reading all the 1,000 Names of Sekhmet on my little tatterdemalion blog :0)))! There are a good many of them that I conjured up strictly for my own (and Sekhmet's) amusement, as many of the Sekhmet sites on the web are boringly over-respectful, especially for a Hyperdimensional Big-Cat-Goddess with an 11-D scratching-post...Peace,T'Zairis
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080907/ap_on_re_eu/big_bang_machine- the link to the news article I clipped from.
Hi Tarius,As far as I know, the papersof Charls F. Brush (the first)are not available online. Youactually have to pull down thephysical journals at a librarythat has them.I'll have to go look up the citation myself,as it's been decades since I reread any ofthose works. I used to do computer researchon his freefall data, but that was back inthe early 1970s.Oh---interesting results, too.... :-)Let me find that and post it for you.:-)Hathor -- A Librarian In Action;-)
Hi T'Zairis,The Sourcebook Project ofDr. Corliss is a gold mine.I know you will enjoy it.Oh, and yes!---I have indeed been readingthose JUICY names of Sekhmet! I think thisone is especially appropriate:999. Our Lady of Trans-Light-Speed BallisticExpulsionOf course, I also like this one:914. Subduer of Testosterone-Fuelled Meat-PuppetsHmmm...I picture the Governator.... :-)):-)Hathor -- Grinning like a Cheshire Cat!;-)
Speaking of Salellites.... Did anyone catch the name of the imaging system on the Rosetta probe that made the recent flyby? OSIRIS! Most curious indeed.
Oh, you have no idea....
Clipped from wikipedia [apparently NASA isn't the only one with a fixation on Egyptian lore]:"Rosetta is a European Space Agency-led robotic spacecraft mission launched in 2004 intended to study the comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. Rosetta consists of two main elements: the Rosetta space probe and the Philae lander. The spacecraft will also flyby and examine two asteroids on its way to the comet.""The probe is named after the Rosetta Stone, which was instrumental in advancing modern understanding of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, as it is hoped the mission will help unlock the secrets of how our solar system looked before planets formed. The lander is named after the Nile island Philae where an obelisk was found that helped decipher the Rosetta Stone."
It's that Egyptian themeagain.Now you know why I keepmentioning---:-)Hathor -- At the crux of all things Egyptian!;-)P.S.: And I suppose the "rock" being imagedis known as (of course) "The Rosetta Stone?"Is that the one with the little squarebuildings that Hoagie was talking abouton Coast the other night?:-)
Honestly, one would have to be a blind, anaerobic bacterium living under a rock on Pluto to miss the staggering 'coincidence' that everything we shoot into space and/or snap interplanetary pix with these days is named Orion/Osiris or ICIS/Isis or Phoenix (the Phoenix legend came from Egypt's Bennu Bird), or else it lands somewhere on an old Egyptian feast-day with the constellation of Orion at 33.3 degrees above the horizon! (That is, when the NASA Nazis are not shooting off Moon-mission bottle-rockets on Hitler's birthday...) I can't imagine that any outside observer with two brain cells to bang together could possibly miss the Ancient Egypt fetish that NASA seems to have, because they certainly don't seem to care to hide it all that well.Marsandro--Yes, 'testosterone-fueled meat-puppet' could definitely refer to our erstwhile fearless fuhrer in Sacramento...Subscribing to the shamanic/magickal idea that naming something gives it power, I've tried to come up with some 21st Century titles and epithets for Sekhmet, so that Her thought-form can stand in opposition to nordic-elitist ritualistic bull. Since Sekhmet was the one Goddess who really did terrify both Egyptian Pharaohs and priests, I figured we might as well enlist Her energy to get our current planetary messes sorted out. I also decided that the whole Mars linkage needed to be openly honored, so Names 401-500 are the Martian ones:403. Mistress of the Pentatope,416. Mistress of Chryse Planitia,486. She Who Is The Tetrahedron In The Orb,494. High Priestess of Cydonia Mensae,...and last but not least,500. Mistress of the Great FacePeace,T'Zairis
Mike,Are you able to reveal any clues as to why this rock is shaped like a diamond in the sky?BTW, no matter how many spoilers are given by team Hoagy-Bara, I'm still buying the new book. If anything, those little minute details make it all the more exciting for most of us.
Re:Yes, 'testosterone-fueled meat-puppet' could definitely refer toour erstwhile fearless fuhrer inSacramento...And to think, who ever would have suspectedthat Marie Shriver and Sekhmet could have somuch in common?Subduing said meat-puppet, that is?:-))))Hathor -- Laughing herself silly!;-))P.S.: Supposedly, Schwarzenegger's personalpolitical views are truly conservative, but theSubduer-In-Situ being of the Kennedy side ofthe aisle, we see the comparison to Sekhmetwith ease....;-))))
Marsandro--I don't know about Maria Shriver doing much subduing-- I remember an interview she gave wherein she admitted that she personally irons all of Arnold's tightie whities, because he has got some kind of German-precision-engineering thing going on with his underwear drawer. Supposedly, his mom always knife-creased his skivvies, and now its Maria's turn.Fruit-of-the-Looms aside, I'm not happy with him because he nixed buying those firefighting tankers the State of California clearly needed after the 2001 wildfires. The result was that in the most recent conflagration, we still had no planes and people's homes burned. Then there's the whole issue of him slashing the State payroll and paying slave's wages to State employees because he has no real will to actually solve California's fiscal problems. Sekhmet forbid he should actually audit the State lottery, or take a closer look at what is going on with Tribal gaming contracts/monies.'Conan the Governor' has not exactly been a California blockbuster, sad to say...Peace,T'Zairis
Hi T'Zairis,Hmmm...fascinating insights.Well, one possibility---Maybe the left-leaning politics is her pricefor an ironing job. Quid pro quo, a Kennedyspecialty.Just a guess on my part, of course. I'm overtwo thousand miles away from the action,and you're right there in the CalifornianSudetenland. I will certainly defer to yourpoint of view! :-):-)Hathor -- Tonight's Political Commentator!;-)P.S.: Assuming Der Governator drives himselfto work each day, I suppose the thing aboutthe undies drawer adds a whole new twist tothe concept of Fahrvergnugen.Then again, maybe the "twist" is what he'strying to avoid....Hmmmm....;-))))
Everything goes and is possible in a Banana republic...even for people to vote actors, mentally derailed person's and known criminals up to rigging elections
Quite so.:-)Hathor -- Keeping It Brief.(No pun intended.);-)
Hi Tarius,I would have trotted over tothe Magale Library (CentenaryCollege) to get the citation foryou, but it seems they had some sort ofshelf collapse up on the second floor. Thewhole thing is off limits for the moment.They have Brush's works on-shelf, and thatis where I can pull up an index to get youthe pub data for the 1880 paper.LSUS sent all theirs to the main campusin Baton Rouge years ago, or I'd have itfor you already.Just a while longer....:-)Hathor -- Overseeing the repairs;-)
Hi Starborne,I am reminded of that songfrom the Sgt. Pepper album:"Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds."Supposedly, the "Lucy" part is a directreference to "Lucifer" (be that a metaphorfor whatever), and the "Diamonds In The Sky"were once presumed to be some sort ofreference to drugs.It now appears that the "diamonds in the sky"are things like the comet/rock/whatever inquestion.Mike: isn't there an asteroid named Lucifer?I know there is one named Apophis, and onenamed Nemesis.Anyway, it looks as if "Lucy In The Sky WithDiamonds" could just as well be describingLucifer and its companions.Prescient Beatles?:-)Hathor -- Card carrying member of the RSA(Rock Shooters Anonymous);-)P.S.: References to "Lucy In the Sky WithDiamonds" allegedly goes back to someancient legend, but I'm sorry to say I don'tknow the story behind it.T'Zairis: you know anything about it?:-)
Yes there is Andro, 1930 Lucifer: http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=1930+Lucifer And of course there is the famous and wonderful Larry Niven book about a comet hitting Earth, "Lucifer's Hammer."
@marsandroTake your time, its nice of you to find this for me.I really would like to read it, they still teach Einstein in college as I went through physics and such not too long ago, wow if had had both papers back then Im sure the teahcer probably would have gotten angry at me or something. hahahaIf there is a possibility then I want to see it.
Hi Tarius,Ohhh, MAN could I ever tell yousome stories about what *I* facedat the hands of physics professorsat even the *slightest* inferencethat Einstein didn't "know it all!"Or that Relativity was a total load of...well, you know. :-)Here are some classic examples:1. "The speed of light is absolute, fixedand immutable."When pigs fly.Counter evidence abounds: Kantor, Birge,Miller, Harrington, Marinov, Chiao, Wang,Hau and Nimtz, to name but a few.And Nimtz, my man, is kicking a** andtaking names.2. "Velocities do not add."Even Kantor knew this was false, back inthe 1920s, and showed it clearly.Several experiments have shown plainly thatvelocities do indeed add. And we have to usethe Doppler formula, not the Lorentz formula.Hint-hint....The "systemmatic error" was on the part ofthose who thought velocities did not add.It has to do with the renormalization of "c"to the local frame following absorption ofthe light by glass during either reflectionor refraction. The experiment has to bedesigned to overcome this defect. Kantor'sexperiment was properly designed. So wasthe one done by his anonymous protoge,published in "New Scientist" in 1962.The latter experiment is listed in Corliss'sSourcebook Project. It's a paper entitled,"Speed of Light Dependent on Source?"The results were absoultely unequivocal.The problem in Relativity is that neitherthe Special nor the General theory candistinguish a light beam of wavelength hand velocity c from another light beam ofwavelength 2h and velocity 2c. It sees themas being the same.All classic Relativity experiments were donein such a way as to agree with this oversight.3. "Under Relativity, there is no privilegedviewpoint."Or, all viewpoints are equally privileged,IF the included physical space has uniformproperties (CATCH: meaning, that theunderlying quantum substrate has a uniformstructure; it sometimes does NOT).I could go on, but you get the idea.:-)Hathor -- Telling it like it is, yet again;-)
Hi Mike,Thanks for the info.This should make for some fascinating reading....:-)Hathor -- Minding the store;-)
@marsandroHey, I would like to take this conversation about Einstein else where as its kinda unwieldy here. If you have an account on Keith Laney's forum: http://www.keithlaney.net/TheHiddenMissionForum/You can contact me there. I got the same name.Plus I am sure the people there would like to hear(read about) this.
Hi Tarius,I tried that some months ago,but it would not go through.I suppose I could go try again....:-)Hathor -- Queen of the Redoubt;-)
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